Mammoth's 325 A.G.E. Build

[Black Mammoth]

I don't even know where to begin, but I can tell you that I'm very excited! Some of you may know/remember that I wanted an 8' long inwall tank. I have had a few minor setbacks here and there, but I'm finally starting the build. I'll start off by listing the specs of the equipment. After that I'll show you where the tank is going and what I have to do. Then I'll give you the history of the build up to this date. Yes, there is some history despite nothing being done yet

 

Display:

• 325 gallon - 96L x 30W x26T built by A.G.E. (purchased from Sean at Fins & Feathers)
  
• Starphire on 3 sides; front and 2 end pieces. I believe that it will be 1/2" glass because of the height, but ultimately it is up to A.G.E.
  
• 60" External overflow on the back (Calfo style)
  
• 4 Drains from the overflow
  
• I need to call Sean and ask about putting some returns in the Eurobrace. I forgot to mention that to him.
  
• There shouldn't be any centerbraces
  

Stand:

• 96 x 30 x 30 powder coated black steel stand with leveling feet and a plywood deck made by A.G.E.
  
• The stand is a cantilever stand. It overhangs by 4.5" on the front so the tank will be flush with the drywall.
  

Flow:

• 1 x Tunze 6200, 3 x Tunze 6100 on a 7095 Multicontroller. I might swap one of the 6100s for a 6200, but I'm going to see how this works first (one 6100 I got from WAMAS and Reef Central member sjm817 and the other 3 from another Reef Central Member)
  
• ReeFlo Dart for the return pump (I still need to get this. I'm keeping my eye out for a used one. If I don't see one, I'll either see if I can get one from Fins & Feathers or Blue Ribbon Koi)
  

Lighting:

• 16 x 54w T5s overdriven with IceCap 660 ballasts. Meaning that I'm using 8 x 54w 48" on each side of the tank. Initially I was going to go with 20 (10 on each side), but since I'm overdriving them, this configuration might work. If it doesn't, I'll add 4 more (2 on each side). I got this from Sean at Fins & Feathers
  
• I will also use IceCap reflectors (I'll either get them from Fins & Feathers or use the WAMAS connection)
  
• I will decide the bulb selection later (I'll probably get them from Reef Geek)
  
• I will use either ball bearing PC fans or possibly a bigger fan on each end.
  
• DIY LED moonlights
  

Filtration:

• ATI BM 250 skimmer. There seems to be mixed reviews on this skimmer. Either people love it or hate it. For the price, I thought I would give it a try. If it doesn't work out, I might go with Grey Seas Aquatics. I'll figure that out later. (I also got the skimmer from sjm817)
  
• No UV. I didn't really see much benefit with this on my 90g. Maybe I'll change my mind later.
  
• 4 filter socks on the overflow (Got from a group buy that WAMAS member ArtC setup)
  
• Shallow Sand Bed probably 2"-3" in depth
  
• About 300lbs of live rock. Probably a 50/50 mix of Marshall and Tonga. (Most of the Marshall is coming from my 90g that I got from Fins & Feathers and I got the rest from WAMAS member DEEPBLUE)
  

Sump/Refugium:

• I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do. I think I might wait until I get the tank and stand installed before deciding on what to do. I was initially thinking a 125g.
  
• Cheato will be used in the refugium.
  
• I might go with a deep sand bed and mangroves.
  

Supplementation:

• This is up in the air right now. I might go with Grey Seas Aquatics for a Kalk Stirrer or Calcium Reactor (if they make one).
  

Miscellaneous:

• I already have a lot from my 90g. I already have heaters, 100GPD RO/DI system, storage containers (may get bigger ones), and auto top off system
  
• I might add a controller of some sort
  
• I may need a chiller, but I'm going to try and get by without it.
  
• Fan for the fish room wired to a humidistat to help remove humidity and heat
  

The tank will be in my basement. Currently my 90g is against a wall and it is wired and partially plumbed through the wall to the unfinished fish room. The new tank will go in that wall. As you can see below, I'll have to move the door and do some drywall work. The stand isn't that dark. I think it was the flash on the camera that made it look so dark.

 

So I'll need to finish off the unfinished room. I'm going reframe the room so I have a little more room for the tank and my supplies. Part of the tank will also go under the stairs. So I need to reframe that part of the room and bump it out another 2 feet. The first thing I will do is run 2 20amp lines to the fish room. I want the fish tank on its own circuits. That is more than what I really need especially since I'm running 12awg wire. Anyway, after electrical work (including the fan), I will need to do some plumbing. I need to move my utility sink and supply lines to where the refrigerator is located. I will also need to move the vent pipe and drain as well. Actually, I probably can't finish hooking up the drain until the tank is installed. Anyway, after that I will insulate the room. I'm doing that for noise isolation. After that, I will be putting up a vapor barrier. Then I will finish off the wall with HardiBacker. I was going to use DuraRock, but HardiBacker is a little easier to work with. Finally, after that I will is fiberglass reinforced plastic (FRP) to cover the walls and ceiling. My goal is to really contain the moisture in the room and use the fan to help remove the moisture from the room. If that isn't enough, I may change it out later with an air exchanger. I already have the duct running outside, so it's just a matter of hooking up the fan. Here is a picture looking through the door showing the fish room and beyond. Don't worry, the mechanical room will not be part of the fish room

 

Now this is looking back at the door. This is the wall where the tank will be at.

 

Finally, here is a picture of the utility sink area. I'll have to move that and reframe that so the tank can partially sit under the stairs there. There isn't a lot of room, but it will fit. Besides, I'll only have a 1.5' in the tight area under the stairs.

 

 

So some of you know that I've been wanting to do this for awhile. I initially wanted to buy a used tank, but I had several leads fall through. I won't get in to all of them, but either I was a day late or I never heard back. I then thought about going acrylic with NAGA, but I wasn't a big fan of acrylic. The price difference wasn't enough for me to go acrylic. So I decided to get a new tank because I spent a long time trying to get a used tank of this size and I wasn't able to. I started to get some quotes. I got a quote from Aquarium Obsessed first. However, after some research and PMs I received, I decided not to go with them. Then I thought I would check Miracles Aquariums. I couldn't believe how much they wanted for the tank and they didn't even spec it for what I asked I was thinking about going with GlassCages knowing some of the risks involved, but I couldn't get an external overflow. I then thought, "What the heck, lets see what A.G.E. can do!" I was afraid to do this, because I was under the impression that they were expensive; compared to GlassCages that is true, but they were way cheaper than Miracles Aquariums. I was thinking I would have to go with John at Kingfish Aquariums because they were the only ones I knew that dealt with A.G.E. But I decided to check with the WAMAS LFS sponsors to see if they can order an A.G.E. tank or know of another custom glass builder. I rather give the local guys supporting us some business. Unfortunately, just about everyone I called couldn't help me. I got advice from get acrylic to get the new Marineland tank to get a GlassCages tank. I then remember hearing that Sean at Fins & Feathers doing a large tank sale earlier in the year. So I thought I would give him a call. After he did some leg work, he was able to order me one. I came in on the December 31st to pay him for the order. So I'll probably get it in a 3 - 5 weeks. He'll keep me posted on that and some movers. So I really need to get cracking on my build out.

 

Well that's all I have for now. I'll be continuing to post updates on here. Feel free to ask questions or give advice.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Black Mammoth

[jason the filter freak]

Thats a massive freakin tank, can't wait to see it in. How are you going to deal with evap causing mildew

[Black Mammoth]

Thats a massive freakin tank, can't wait to see it in. How are you going to deal with evap causing mildew

 

Check the paragraph between the first 2 pictures. Cliff notes: I'm putting in a vapor barrier and FRP to help seal off the room. I have a fan exhausting the air from the room to outside. It will be hooked up to humidistat so that the fan only turns on when the humidity reaches a certain level. If that isn't sufficient, I'll replace the fan with an air exchanger. I'm also thinking about building a hood (like a fan hood over a stove) to go over the tank to collect the moisture and the fan will be in that hood to pull out the moisture. If all of that fails, I'll just hook up my dehumidifier, but I doubt it will have to come to that. And just in case someone points it out, whatever air I exhaust, I have to pull that much in to the room. I plan on using a louvered door for the room

[jason the filter freak]

Totally spaced on that paragraph read the first few and the last big one. The louvered door is an interesting though, I hope its not sucking that hard. I imagine you should be ok with the duct work and your hood plan if the duct isn't enough.

[MisterTang]

I figured the basement would be the only place to do this. We didn't end up getting the finished basement, and I'm glad now - I hate the way the layout the finished basements in our neighborhood is if you get it from the builder. Will this end up relatively close to the wall where you come down the stairs?

[Black Mammoth]

I figured the basement would be the only place to do this. We didn't end up getting the finished basement, and I'm glad now - I hate the way the layout the finished basements in our neighborhood is if you get it from the builder. Will this end up relatively close to the wall where you come down the stairs?

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. Actually, one of the deciding factors on the model we chose was the basement floor plan to put a big tank in. I was going to finish the basement, but they did for me for free anyway. Yes, the tank will be close to that wall. I always figured if for some reason if that wall didn't work, I would put it on the other wall. I thought about finishing off the basement myself so I could design it the way I wanted it, but I got the basement for "free" as an incentive for buying the house. My basement is an L shape and it is pretty open.

[GSM]

Awesome when is the tank tour?

 

AGE builds incredible tanks.

[Black Mammoth]

Awesome when is the tank tour?

 

AGE builds incredible tanks.

 

When you stop by to help me move the tank down the stairs Just kidding. I will hopefully be getting some professional movers. We'll see about that. Well after I get it all setup and everything squared away, I'll be more than happy to have a tank tour for those willing to make the drive out to Lovettsville. That will probably be a couple months away.

[MisterTang]

I will come and help you move, so long as I get to be spotter for the actual tank itself

[Black Mammoth]

I have a small update. It isn't quite worthy of pictures, so I'll post them when I make more progress. I wasn't able to work on the build out as much as I wanted to due to other obligations, but here is what I was able to get done:

 

- Get the room mostly cleaned out (probably around 90% clean). This included moving the 55g and the ~200lbs to the mechanical room.

- Started to move the framing on two of the walls. I want to move the rear wall back another 21". I know that isn't much, but I don't have much space and that will help. I'm moving the side wall closer to the insulation by a 2 -3". The builder didn't move it as close to the wall as they could. Like I said, 2 - 3" will help a bit. The back wall is almost moved. I was trying to keep the wall in tact so I wouldn't have to rebuild it, but that was kind of dumb. The reason is that I have to frame out a door on the back wall and on both the back and side wall, I need to change the spacing of the studs. I think they are at every 24" (basement). I'm going to use HardiBacker, it only comes in 5'x3'. So I'll need to reframe it to support that; at least I should do that.

 

I hope to get the reframing done and the electrical done before the weekend. We'll see how that goes. Knowing me, I probably won't finish it until the weekend. After I get this done, I'll post some pics. The biggest issue I'm going to have with framing is the current fish tank. I need to move it out of the way so I can make the large hole and frame that section out. I'm trying to hold that off as long as possible to last because we all know moving a tank is a pain. I forgot to order my fan this weekend. So tonight I'm going to try and order that and new filters & membrane for my RO/DI system.

[Black Mammoth]

Wow, it has been awhile since I've given an update. Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of time to work on the build out. I'm starting to feel the pressure as the tank is getting closer to the delivery date; which I'll have to check on in the next day or so. Here is the progress since the last update:

• I have most of the framing done. I still have to cut the holes in the wall for the tank and frame those out. I will also need to put up some furring strips in a few places.
  
• I ran 3 20amp lines from my room to my panel. Only 2 of them are for the fish room. I also installed the boxes for the new duplexes (outlets). I hope to wire up the duplexes and the panel tomorrow.
  

If the wiring doesn't take too long tomorrow, I also hope to break down my current tank. I need to break it down so I can move it. Currently, it is in the way of where I want to make my hole in the wall for the tank. Once that is done along with the framing & electrical, everything else should move pretty fast. When I get the framing and electrical completely done, I'll post new pics

[Black Mammoth]

I have an update and this time with pictures! So I made a HUGE mistake, but it can be fixed. As I probably mentioned, or you already figured out, I have a bit of a height restriction because of the stairs. About 2 feet of the tank will be under the stairs. This isn't ideal, but I feel that it will be manageable. Anyway, I was looking at a 30 - 31" tall tank initially, but with that height, I needed the stand to be around 30". I ended up going with a 26" tall tank which means I could go with a taller stand. Well, when I ordered the tank I ordered the 26" tall tank with the 30" tall stand...doh! I didn't catch it when reviewing the plans from Tom at A.G.E. Unfortunately, I found the problem when I started to frame out the side wall. So I called Sean at Fins & Feathers explaining the problem. I ran a few things by him as fixes, but he said he would give Tom a call to see what can be done. I'm not entirely sure since the stand was supposed to be coming back from powder coating this past Monday. Anyway, we are waiting a call back from Tom to see what can be done about raising the stand another 5". I figured that the worst case scenario is that I can buy 12"x12"x2"T cement blocks and raise the stand off the floor by 4". Sean seems pretty confident that Tom can fix the issue. We'll see. I'm just happy that Sean is helping me with my bonehead mistake.

 

Anyway, I thought I would post some pictures of my progress. I wanted to wait until all of my framing was finished, but since I hit this issue I figured I should post what I have now. I will begin the final framing tomorrow after work. I've done quite a bit of work, but I probably won't go in to all of it.

 

I broke down my existing tank and move the fish and corals into my 55g prop tank. I moved almost all of my live rock into a 150g Rubbermaid storage bin which I might use as my sump. I'm not entirely sold on it yet. I might have one custom made to go completely under the stand. If I use any Rubbermaid storage bin, I will have to make a catwalk to go over it to get into the tank. That might be nice to have anyway. I also pulled out the door frame and mostly removed the return air vent. It wasn't hooked up there anyway because of the fish tank.

 

The first pic here shows where the wall where the tank will be. As you will see, the old tank is gone. The big pieces of tape show where the tank will be. The tape is inclusive. So the bottom edge of the tape on the bottom is the bottom part of the glass. The top edge of the tape on the top is the top part of the glass. This shows the tank with the 4" raise. Obviously, if Tom can work out things the entire thing will be an inch higher. The little pieces above the thicker pieces are inclusive. These represent the opening above the tank. I plan on having an 8" opening above the tank. I hope that an 8" opening is big enough. I'm stealing SERVO's from Reef Central idea for front access. You can see it in his build thread here: SERVO's build thread showing the front panel access

 

 

I also installed a FanTech PB190 fan kit and hooked it up to a dehumidistat. This fan is over sized for the room, but I think it will work well. Above the fan I put R-19 insulation above the fan for sound proofing. It does a pretty good job. I also started to do the walls with insulation, but I could only go so far until I frame out the rest of the stuff. As I said, the insulation is for sound proofing. It will also some what help keep the heat out from the mechanical room. While I was at it, I removed a vent from the duct work. It was right over where the tank was going to be. I figured if I need it later for AC, I'll put one back in towards the back of the room. I'm also going to put my air return for the HVAC above my sink. I'm going to put a damper on it so it will be closed during the summer and open during the winter. It's my cheap way of humidifying my home during the winter

 

 

I created an oak box for the side portal view. When I made the box, I realized I had the wrong stand. I also made a mistake in making the box. So I have to make a new one, but that should only take me a few minutes. I'm showing this picture so you have an idea of what the side will look like. It will give you roughly a 22" viewing area. The full 30" can't be viewed because of the support beam in the corner.

 

 

Here is the back of the wall where the tank will go

 

Here is a clean shot under the stairs. I need to do some framing there because I'm going to put up a wall up there so I don't have to put hardibacker down the entire back of the stairs. If you noticed, I redid the plumbing. I move the supply lines and drain. The drain is assembled, but the last few pieces aren't glued so I can pull them out to put the tank in. The top of the drain has access so I can pipe tank water directly in to the drain for my water changes.

 

Here are some random shots of the room. As you can see, the electrical work is done. I also raised my sink because it was too low for me.

[Black Mammoth]

I'm here with another update. Insulation is pretty much done. The vapor barrier is about halfway done. That will only take me a few minutes to finish up. I'm putting the door frame in now. The hole for the tank has been cut out of the wall. I will probably post pictures of the room right before I put up the hardibacker. I should have everything finished or pretty close to finished by the end of this weekend. I got some pictures of the tank from A.G.E. I didn't post all of them, but I put up some interesting ones

 

Tank without the top or weirs.

 

Tank with the top and weirs installed.

 

Close up of the corner.

 

Here is the stand.

[reefmontalvo]

How are you getting this massive beast in the house?

[Black Mammoth]

How are you getting this massive beast in the house?

 

LOL...movers! The moving company claims that they only need 4 people to bring it in to the house. We'll see about that. They have to go down a walk up well to get in to the basement. So it's going down a flight of stairs.

[Smoothtriqueter]

4 people my BUTT! good luck tagging along

[ctenophore]

Has this moving co. ever moved a large glass tank? It's not something to take lightly (no pun intended) if they break it, good luck getting them to replace it in any sort of timely fashion. I had a moving company move an 800 gal starfire glass tank, and if a friend and I weren't there to supervise, it would have ended up in many small pieces based on the movers' plan. I'd make sure you have a good plan and make them stick to it.

[Black Mammoth]

Has this moving co. ever moved a large glass tank? It's not something to take lightly (no pun intended) if they break it, good luck getting them to replace it in any sort of timely fashion. I had a moving company move an 800 gal starfire glass tank, and if a friend and I weren't there to supervise, it would have ended up in many small pieces based on the movers' plan. I'd make sure you have a good plan and make them stick to it.

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. There are some things that still need to be worked out. I have a plan on how to move it down, but I need to talk to the people. I don't want my plan to be their fault on why the tank is broken. The contract will also specify full replacement if it is broken. There are quite a few things that will need to be done. Honestly, I think my plan is solid enough where I could move it with some WAMASers help. But if it breaks when I move it, then I'm out of luck. That's the big reason why to use movers. If anyone has used movers to move a large tank, please send me a PM with some info. It would be better to talk to some movers with more experience (or any) moving tanks.

 

Ctenophore, if you don't mind, can you PM your mover's info for the 800 gal tank. This should be a piece of cake for them

[ctenophore]

The 800 was in Florida, and I wouldn't inflict those movers on you even if they were right down the road from you and wanted to work for free. They actually called a tow truck to drag the tank & stand out of the big moving truck, then used the winch on the tow truck to slide the tank (on several dollies and balanced on a car jack) down the tilt bed into the house. It was a complete circus but they managed to get it to it's final spot in one piece. There were roofers working on the house next door who all stopped their work and sat on the roof to "see them break that big ol' fish tank". It was the first time anyone present had seen a tow truck tow a fish tank, including the tow truck driver.

[Black Mammoth]

The 800 was in Florida, and I wouldn't inflict those movers on you even if they were right down the road from you and wanted to work for free. They actually called a tow truck to drag the tank & stand out of the big moving truck, then used the winch on the tow truck to slide the tank (on several dollies and balanced on a car jack) down the tilt bed into the house. It was a complete circus but they managed to get it to it's final spot in one piece. There were roofers working on the house next door who all stopped their work and sat on the roof to "see them break that big ol' fish tank". It was the first time anyone present had seen a tow truck tow a fish tank, including the tow truck driver.

 

That's a great story! Yesterday I took some pictures of the walk-up stairs and sent them to Sean at F&F since he's the one setting up everything (Thanks Sean!). He was pretty confident it would be pretty easy for them. He made a great point, a industrial size dolly with the appropriate pneumatic wheels should do the trick. That will probably work. Then the 4 guys should be able to easily lift 500 - 700lbs...probably closer to 500lbs on to the stand. I'll also be around and I can probably get some guys from the construction sites (homes) to stop by. Besides, Mister Tang said he would help. He's good for at least 400 lbs

 

Regardless, it shall be interesting. All I know is that my heart will be racing and I'll be pacing until it is in place on the stand. How many people did it end up taking you guys to get your monster in place?

[Black Mammoth]

I'm here to post another update. It has been awhile. Actually, I've had pictures for awhile, but I've been really busy. The pictures are of the holes in the wall and the room with the vapor barrier up. I'm currently about 2/3 of the way done with "dry walling" (using Hardibacker). Then after that I need to put up the FRP. I picked up the FRP today. It will be a challenge to put up as it has no rigidity to it!

 

As for the tank, I'm not entirely sure what is going on with it. Tom at A.G.E. hasn't been very good communicating with us. I'm a bit disappointed in A.G.E.'s service. Since I haven't heard anything like this before about them, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that this is not normal business. Supposedly, they have some large cylinders that they are working on. Last time I saw pictures of the tank, it looked done except for the external overflow. That was about 2 weeks ago, so I'm not sure what the deal is. He is supposed to send me final pics to make sure everything is right before shipping. It's not really that big of a deal since the fish room isn't done. If it was done, I would probably be a bit upset.

 

I need to order few things for the tank. I need to get new RO/DI parts and a house sediment filter. I also need to order some Weldon 16 to fix a skimmer cup Anyway, here are the pictures. Another bit of bad news, the movers that were going to move the tank backed out. The quotes are starting to get outrageous. Since they are so outrageous, I decided that I'm going to move the tank myself. So I will probably be asking for help. I have some buddies already willing to come over and it shall be interesting. Currently my plan is to lower the tank down the stairs on a sled using a come-along attached to an Explorer

 

Here is a picture that shows where the front of the tank will face. The tank is 26" tall, but I made the opening bigger so I can have front access.

 

Here is a picture that shows the side portal for the tank. I had to recess the tank because of a support beam in the corner. So I built an oak box for it.

 

Here is a picture of the room with the vapor barrier up. This is facing the back of the room.

 

Here is the side wall with the vapor barrier up.

 

Finally, here is the ceiling with the vapor barrier up.

[Pat_13]

Very nice. Depending on the date/time I might be able to help move the tank in.

[ctenophore]

Another bit of bad news, the movers that were going to move the tank backed out. The quotes are starting to get outrageous. Since they are so outrageous, I decided that I'm going to move the tank myself. So I will probably be asking for help. I have some buddies already willing to come over and it shall be interesting. Currently my plan is to lower the tank down the stairs on a sled using a come-along attached to an Explorer

You should do it yourself. I'm guessing enough WAMAS folks are willing to help. The movers won't care if they make a mess, break things, ding walls, etc. The come-along attached to a car sounds like a reasonable plan. When you say "sled", you don't mean a real sled for snow, do you? I would use 2x4s or plywood. A pair of furniture dollies is all you need for the flat sections, then just slide onto the wood planks for the steps, and back onto the dollies at the bottom of the steps.

 

I am willing to help if you come up short of nearby people (I think I'm well over an hour away)

[Black Mammoth]

You should do it yourself. I'm guessing enough WAMAS folks are willing to help. The movers won't care if they make a mess, break things, ding walls, etc. The come-along attached to a car sounds like a reasonable plan. When you say "sled", you don't mean a real sled for snow, do you? I would use 2x4s or plywood. A pair of furniture dollies is all you need for the flat sections, then just slide onto the wood planks for the steps, and back onto the dollies at the bottom of the steps.

 

I am willing to help if you come up short of nearby people (I think I'm well over an hour away)

 

Thanks for the offer. I don't mean a real snow sled. I'm going to do pretty much what you said. I'll probably put it on furniture dollie in the driveway and put some plywood down to the back yard. Then push to the walk up. Once it is at the walk up, the tank will be moved from the shipping crate to a "sled" I'll make to hold the tank. I can't leave it in the crate because the door is too small. I'm going to build a ramp as well that goes down the stairs giving it a flat surface for it to slide down. Also, I will need to put the tank face down or on it's back to get it through the door. The sled won't be on furniture dollies. It should be interesting. The biggest concern is the size. I've moved 300lb items down the stairs myself. Actually, this is a similar technique that I used to get my 300lb treadmill in to the basement. I did that one by myself. Yeah, Rockville is a bit away. I'm about 33min from Germantown (where I work). But that's with no traffic...41minutes going the back way. Anyway, I appreciate the offer. When I know of the actual move date, I'll post a request on the main forum

[Black Mammoth]

Well I have some good news about the tank move. I decided to talk to someone from the Lovettsville Fire Department and someone from the Fairfax Fire Department. Both are very good things like this. I ran them my idea by them. They liked it, but found something annoying with it. Actually, I thought of the same thing, but I didn't know of a better way. They thought the come-along would be annoying because it is slow taking it down the ramp. They suggested a belaying system with some pulleys and a figure 8. I wish I would have thought of that. They have the equipment and are actually up for bringing some FD guys with them to help me move it down to the basement. It will give them good practice with ropes and some of these techniques. It would save me a lot of money in moving and I could give them a donation for them helping me. I just need to confirm with them that they can still do this. I just need to give them the move date.