Well, I got my enkamat in the mail so I decided to do the mesh wheel mod on my ASM G3 today.

I took a bunch of pics, here's my take on it:


My skimmer before any mods. Note height of exit stand pipe.


I put the sedra 5000 in a bucket to guage it's bubble production:


I removed the needlewheel from the sedra 5000...another freaking snail stuck in my pump! Also, I had at least 5 broken off needles, and about 5 more that were half broken off...some chunks of carbon...not good.


I clipped all but 4 needles off with clippers:


I cut my enkamat into 4 peices (this is the $2 enkamat from ebay):


I took the spindle out of the needlewheel. Note the 4 holes already in the needlewheel:


It was very hard to get the enkamat on the center spindle without cutting it, but I did it. Here is what it looks like after 1 layer of enkamat:


I got 3 layers on, and couldnt'd do any more. It seemed like 2 would have been plenty. Then I used the existing 4 holes to insert 2 cable ties:


Now I trimmed it so it would fit in the pump without binding. I only trimmed the edges, not the top:


Back in the pump:


Test it in the bucket...at first it seemed about the same, but then I noticed a VERY fine mist of vapor that was raising and filling the entire room....I did not get this pre-mod. (you cannot see it in the pic):


Back in the skimmer:



You may notice my collection cup got a lot fuller than in the first pic...There is so much more air in there now, it immediately started overflowing...I had to lower my riser tube at least 3 inches! Compare the first and last pic and you can see that...that tells me the mod is working way better than pre-mod.

Excellent mod!


Now, for those of you who read this far....notice how the bottom of the skimmer is not full of bubbles. Doesn't seem like a good thing to me. So, I did the "elbow mod": simply slip a PVC elbow inside the skimmer to direct the bubbles down: Seems like a no-brainer...I think a 45 might be better though. Of course, this would not be a problem with the recirc mod.



voila!

I'm not sure how long this mod took since my girlfriend called me in the middle of it to break up with me, but I'd estimate about a half hour. Happy modding!

tim

enkamat? Please explain, I have seen this mod but never did it. Any extra you could send my way?

Great pics and explainations. Sorry, to hear your g/f broke up with you.
Thanks

sorry to hear about your gf problem

it seems a lot of people do mesh mods on the needlewheel pump that comes with this Odyssea skimmer I have, and there's this long-a** post on reef central somewhere about it. At some point in the future I'll have to try it out.

Tim, that's awesome/that sucks! You managed to mod your skimmer and get dumped at the same time! Was that the girl you brought to the meeting last week? Thanks for thinking of me as I sit on baby watch!

nice mod, meh riddance

Looks interesting... can someone post the link to this mod on RC?

Very nice and thanks for the pics. I ordered some of that off ebay last week so it should be here any day now. I'll be modding mine as soon as it gets here. Are there any shots that anyone wants that weren't taken on this post. I can take different shots while I'm modding mine if that would help anyone.

Thanks again

Answers:

rioreef: enkamat is the mesh material used for this mod. It's well documented to be the best stuff to use, but some people insist on using peices of scrubbers they find at lowe's. the enkamat for this build cost $2+$3 shipping on ebay and showed up in 2 days. I only have enough enkamat left for 1 layer...you should use 2,3, or 4....I used 3. Just spend the $5 Heres an ebay link: LINK

treesprite: I read the long post on RC. Everyone loved it. Some folks measured the air flow difference and the consensus was it went from 9 to 15 l/m for the sedra 5000 (different for other pumps)...a substantial increase. The only downside is the needlewheels are very expensive in some cases, and you have to comit to destroying it.

tygger: Here is a link (not the RC one): LINK
Here is AN RC thread (huge): RC LINK

dave: yes it was the same woman (Natasha) I brought to the meeting. Easy come, easy go. No big deal. It's not like I lost my favorite fish.

All: I have noticed now when I remove my collection cup, the water frothing around in the top of the skimmer is really noticably more frothy and the bubbles seem smaller.

tim

"dave: yes it was the same woman (Natasha) I brought to the meeting. Easy come, easy go. No big deal. It's not like I lost my favorite fish."
ROFLOL :rollface:

hahaha...nice

what a dig... I wonder if she would ever read this?

Awesome mod dude. Thanks for the illustrated photos.

James

You should see what she's writing on her myspace page . . .

I wanna try this, but don't want to destroy my needle wheel... is there an easy way to make a replacement disk to hold the enkamat? I don't have the tools to cut a circular disk like in the RC link example.

Nice job :>)

It's not the writing, but the pictures :>O

I felt the same way for a while, but never really had any good idea how to do it.

So in the end I just bit the bullet. After seeing several of my needles were broken off, it made the decision a lot easier.

tim

I was reading a thread over on RC about some skimmers. Some were wary of the threadwheel, thinking it was less durable than the needlewheel. I was tempted to post your pictures over there! LOL

Tracy

Yeah, no kidding...the needlewheel doesn't seem particularly durable to me. I can replace the mesh in 5 minutes for $5 if I have to...the needlewheel is expensive. Of course, I probably could have protected my needlewheel better.

Also, the enkamat is known to be very durable, whereas some other materials people use have proven to be less durable (some scrubber materials)

Here is "the" RC thread on this subject...I finally found it:
LINK


A couple interesting quotes from the first couple of 27 pages:


"Sivert, on my OTP 3000, air draw went from 15 scfh to 35 schf when I went from the needlewheel to gutterguard, and then from 35 to 50+ scfh when I went from gutterguard to enkamat. Yeah, it makes a big difference."




"The G3 needs to be modded in order to perform at its best.

1. Mesh impeller (performance increase of 50%)
2. Gate valve
3. Recirc
4. Plumb to overflow

You will not be happy unless #1 is accomplished. The impeller mod is a MUST. "


tim

My needle wheel is in perfect shape, otherwise I would've chopped it up without hesistation.

I know how you feel, it took me a while to decide to do it (I was assuming I had a perfect needlewheel).

The RC thread with it's quantitative stats convinced me.

All too often in this hobby, claims are made with no real data to back them up ("the recirc mod is better" is a good example...I have never seen actual data proving how much better it is, or it is better at all. show me the money!) I was impressed to see the air flow measurements on RC. Also, having to lower my riser tube 3" tells me for sure it's better.

tim

Tim can you tell me what is this? Interested, can you post a link?



Raf

This is just where you cut a big hole in your skimmer and plug the outflow from your display tank directly in to your skimmer as it's feed.

I think this is a bad idea, because it's probably way too many GPH for most of us. (With the recirc mod, you want to target 150-200 GPH for the G3, for instance.) I prefer using a MJ600 or MJ900, even though it's an additional pump.

2 of the 3 bottom pics on this page show this....see the big hose plugged in to the skimmer: LINK
tim

Well, you convinced me. My skimmer was due for its 6 month maintenance anyway, so I ordered the enkamat from ebay last week and did the mod on Sunday. I have an ASMG4 with Sedra 9000 pump - recirc and gate valve mods done last year. Using an OR 2700 as the feed pump. I was able to get 4 layers of enkamat on the sedra, and just for the heck of it i went ahead and modded the OR as well - putting 2 layers of enkamat on there.

Prior to the mod, it took 4 full turns of the gate valve to get the water level in the skimmer where I want it. After the mod, the skimmer was overflowing even with the gate valve wide open. I gave it 2 days to see if it would settle down on its own. During that time I emptied about 5 gallons from the collection cup. Last night I finally gave in and closed off the airline on the OR feed pump. That took the water level down just enough to stop the skimmer from overflowing. This morning there was 1" of dark skimmate in the collection cup. This is still with the gate valve all the way open.

So far I have to say that the mesh mod is just as good as its cracked up to be. Definitely exceeded my expectations.

I just bought a G1 on Sunday (long and somewhat embarrasing story, but an excuse to upgrade anyway), and yesterday I ordered 2 pieces of the Enkamat. After reading the RC threads and other spots, it seems that this is the easiest way to increase your skimmers performance without breaking the bank. I'll be sure to post some pics of my adventures.

One other ? Has anyone who did the recirc mod really noticed a significant increase in performance, or should I just stick with the threadwheel and leave it at that?

-Brian

Does anyone which enkamat version is best? Looks like they have different densities between the 7003, 7010, 7018, 7020, etc.

http://www.colbond-usa.com/searchresult.ht...;specificname=0

I know the 7910 should not be used, as it has a biodegradable mesh woven in. Other than that, I don't know. I bought the ebay stuff (and don't know what type it is...it just says "P4" which means nothing to me).

I noticed the 7910 data sheet mentions it is fused with a geotextile, and some of the others did not. I think that is the offending material, I'd avoid any that mention that.




I have not noticed any difference with the recirc mod. After drilling those holes in my skimmer, I now wish I hadn't. Especially after talking to chefthomas and seeing he has been using a totally un-modded G3 for years. Your mileage may vary.

tim





Sounds like you may need to go back to the stand pipe to adjust it. Or I think you can install a longer pipe between the gate valve and the skimmer exhaust?

tim

I have my gate valve as far down on the stand pipe as it will go, and above that a T with the exhaust coming out the side and then back down into the sump. I can't even remember why I decided to do it that way, but it has worked fine until I did this mod. You can just see the T on the left in this old pick (3 days of skimmate last year after I did the recirc mod):

As its presently configured I can't lower it or open it up any more. The only thing I can think of is to cut a little bit off of the the bottom section of the T. If that doesn't work I may try to put the T first and the gate valve on the exhaust line. Now that I think of it that is probably my best option.

It's a nice problem to have. FWIW I definitely think I got increased performance with the recirc mod and IMO it is worth doing, but the meshwheel mod has had even more of an effect. With all three mods I really can't complain about the performance I'm getting out of this $400 skimmer.

On second thought, I don't think I'm going to touch a thing.

22 hours:


32 hours (slightly different angle but there's about an inch more there and its darker):


Yeah, I'd say the mesh mod was worth the $5 and 20 minutes.

FYI - I found this article on RC:


Before every body gets too excited and starts exchanging their Deltec pinwheel impellors for the 'new ' mesh type impellors, I thought people may be interested in some information regarding the mesh wheel.



Deltec use the same mesh material in various applications and experimented with the mesh wheel impellor about 15 years ago, so this idea is not new.

The small diameter of the mesh does produce very fine bubbles as it cuts through the air however there are also a number of disadvantages of this material which is why Deltec chose not to develop it further in a serious commercial product range.

As water enters the pump, the first thing that it comes into contact with is the mesh on the impellor. Any algae or detritus entering the pump can easily become trapped within the mesh where it will start to build up requiring regular maintenance - a thing that most people like to think that they do, but in reality do not. As detritus builds up in the mesh the ability to split the air and therefore the performance will drop.

The mesh by the nature of the material is totally non uniform in construction so no two mesh wheels are the same which can lead to differences in performance from impellor to impellor.

With its non uniform shape it is almost impossible to balance which becomes even worse when there is any detritus lodged in it. An unbalanced impellor will oscillate which creates irritating vibration noise and the possibility of wear on the ceramic shaft and bearings which reduces the life of the pump.
A protein skimmer is about adding the maximum amount of air into the maximum amount of water to maximise fractionation and waste removal.

It was found that for all the mesh will draw air and smash it in to fine bubbles; the mesh wheel impellor draws far less water through the pump than a pinwheel. This means that you get lots of air but clean less water. The reduced water can even cause the pump itself to run hot and trip out the internal thermal switch.

The mesh material itself has a limited life span in salt water and will start to break down over time, especially in the turbulent conditions of the pump housing with potential for becoming trapped inside the pump. As the mesh starts to break down the efficiency of the skimmer will once again start to fall.


The design and operation of the Deltec Pinwheel Skimmer has been developed over many years and relies on exact engineering tolerances to get the best mix of air and water which can not be achieved with a random mesh.

http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/?q=node/383

What do you guys think?

Anyone have comments on this stuff posted by tygger, before I get some of that mesh to do the mesh mod? Seems like people here are pretty high on the mod, haven't had problems with build-up, and have been getting unambiguously positive results in terms of cleaning out the water. But wanted to see if there are any detractors.

pf4 is the enkamat to use the numbers just mean the size of openings and density of the mat. from what i learned pf4 is the correct one

I don't even feel like acknowledging said post. Buy the enkamat, do the mod. You'll never regret it and you'll never look back.

Garrett.

I agree with Garrett. The meshwheel is all its cracked up to be. That article is posted on Deltec's (D-D) website, so its about what I expected them to say. I mean come one, what are they gonna say, that the meshwheel is better?

In your case, you're modding a ASM not a Deltec, so I would say DEFINITELY do the mod as it will be a far superior upgrade over the ASM's needlewheel. I've been running a much smaller GSA skimmer with a meshwheel on it and it been keeping up with a Deltec AP851 rated for 2-3 times the tanks size (also twice the cost), so in my personal experience the meshwheel is superior to the needlewheels and will help you get more bang for your buck out of your skimmer.

Since it's been a while, I am curious if you guys still agree this is the way to go? I have a ASM 3 myself, but it has been running flawlessly since day one with no problems. I'm kind the type of guy who, If it ain't broke don't fix it.

What say you?

So I ended up doing the mod and have no regrets. The mesh wheel definitely chops up the air into smaller finer bubbles. With the mesh mod, when I remove the collection cup with the pump still running, I can feel a fine mist being created by the micro-bubbles popping.

Only draw back is that you'll probably need to re-mesh the wheel after several months, so I would just order extra right off the bat. The mesh will begin to fall apart...

7 months later and my mesh is still in perfect condition and isn't clogged at all.

I was going to clean it, but it didn't need any cleaning.

I also like to leave things alone that appear to be working...it took a lot of convincing to make me want to do this mod...but once I saw how mangled and fouled my needlewheel was, I was convinced right there.

tim

7 months? It must've been how I cut the mesh... I prob cut it too large causing it to rub against the sides. On my 2nd set, I made effort to cut the mesh without breaking some of the loops. Kinda hard to explain...

Weird...I wasn't too careful when I cut mine, I know that.

I wonder if you got some bad enkamat (the biodegradable stuff)?

tim

do you cut the mesh right at the lip of the disc? or do you under size it a bit to prevent rubbing?

I was thinking the best way to cut this stuff would be a hot knife from a craft store... will cut it like butter and seal the newly cut areas... what do you think? good idea?

For me, I just used scissors. I cut it flush with the disk.

I think a ratty jagged edge might be better for chopping up bubbles than a smooth sealed edge. Probaby won't make much difference though.

tim

I would think that having a ragged edge would allow for the material to degrade faster... if thats the case would it be better to seal them? I wounder how much performance would be lost if I did this?

You could always try both ways. At $2 a pop...who cares?

You'll find opinions vary. I haven't researched for a very long time (7 months), and may have forgotten, but I don't recall the long time users of enkamat in my previous research complaining about a short life span of the product, nor has mine worn at all...but...I wouldn't expect much degradation either, almost certainly something you couldn't objectively test.

tim