Fazio92 February 26, 2011 Share February 26, 2011 Well, To my dismay, i think my new Latz clowns brought me a case of marine velvet :( and of course, being that i am in an apartment and don't have too much space i did not QT them (definitely a poor decision, looking back). Well, i setup a 10gal and a 30gal for Cu Treatment, 10gal for the Latz and the 30gal for all the other fish in my display (though the Latz are the only ones that show symptoms, i read that it is motile and infects all fish in a system) So, now the Latz are being treated and a sailfin that i was able to catch, but i cant catch the rest. I have 2 chromis, my B&W adult Occelaris (which i really don't want to treat, but i need the tank fallow for at least 8weeks), sixline, and yellow coris. Any suggestions on the chromis as they are the hardest to catch? I thought it was Brooklynellosis at first and did 3 Formalin baths over the past week but no change except they're alive (Latz). Again no other fish show symptoms, but I have 3 tanks plumbed together so it definitely could have traveled. Doing some further reading and lack of effectiveness of the formalin i've come to the conclusion that it's marine velvet. Any suggestions would be great! Also, my snowflakes and batch of B&W juvi's are plumbed into the same system as well. So, i'm guessing i need to treat them too :( I need more space!!! -Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overklok February 26, 2011 Share February 26, 2011 (edited) This is a tough one to kick. Just dose the treatment aquarium. I would wait on treating the rest of the tanks. I think you treat with an antibiotic for velvet (maracyn). I an always leery of an antibiotic because it is so indiscriminate in what it kills. Edited February 26, 2011 by overklok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE February 26, 2011 Share February 26, 2011 I really don't think it would be velvet if they're all still alive after a week. Velvet acts FAST once you see symptoms. Who did you get the latz from? darn I'm jealous. I would still lean towards brooks or ick though. Any pics? Good luck and let me know if you need anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 February 26, 2011 Author Share February 26, 2011 Im pretty sure its velvet as they first had tiny yellow/orange dots, then disappeared, followed by heavy breathing, then white powder dusting (not big like Ich). I forgot to add that they have been in hypo for the past few days as well. Either way, they are now being treated with cupramine which would kill velvet or brook. My only concern is having to treat 250+ fish that were in a connected system, though none show any signs or symptoms that they caught it too, but i'm pretty sure that they could at anytime since the disease can travel, right. Would you catch and treat that many fish if nothing pointed to them being ill, including breeding pairs??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE February 26, 2011 Share February 26, 2011 I think it depends on what it is. If it's brooks- definitely because it infects clowns easily; if it's velvet or ick, same thing, but if it's some sort of internal parasite, then probably not. How long were the latz in the system? If nothing else has contracted the disease and it's been over a week, then I don't think I would, but a week ago I probably would have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 February 26, 2011 Author Share February 26, 2011 They've been in the system for about 3 weeks, and the only ones to show signs, except for fish that were in that exact tank and came in contact with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr February 26, 2011 Share February 26, 2011 when did they first show external signs? I owuld stick with copper...I personally dont like cupramine as its unstable, when compared to copper sulfate pentahydrate...i peronally see copper as a good starter for ectos. "[velvet] has caused disease in salinities ranging from 3-45 ppt" -Noga that being said if I get a fish with velvet or anything that resembles it itreat with "copper power" or "coppersafe". If you can find any pure unsequestered prazi, and mix it with vodka, then that is safe to use with chelated copper. The prazi "pro" is not safe for use the same time as copper. Sean PS I'm referencing my disease book so post up any question or noteworhty points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr February 26, 2011 Share February 26, 2011 the toughest thing about velvet is that infection usually starts in the gills where there is no protection. could take up to ten days to see any signs on the fishes body. it does have a life stage similiar to ICH, so if the copper level is kept @ the proper level consistently you should see improvementw/i 3-5 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbartco February 26, 2011 Share February 26, 2011 Best of luck Fazi. Been through it a number of years ago, so hoping you have better results- We need a breeder local doing latz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite February 27, 2011 Share February 27, 2011 I had it once like 12 years ago. Kept all the fish in a 38g QT (DT was a 45), dosing copper for a couple months, doing freshwater formalin baths, and still in the QT for a while longer without copper. No fish in the display tank all the while. All the fish lived except for an angel who died not from the parasite but from a bacterial infection which was the result of a tang swipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 February 27, 2011 Author Share February 27, 2011 Ok, i'm thinking they actually have Brook now, again, because their skin looks like its sloughing off, fins are tattering, cloudy eyes, rapid breathing. And they only seem a little better (swimming/breathing) right after i do a Formalin bath (which really doesn't phase them even for a 60min dip). Showing that Cu is not doing anything, as it shouldn't if its Brook. I also added Marcyn-Oxy yesterday as a preventative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 February 27, 2011 Author Share February 27, 2011 This is a pic that i found online, as i can't get a pic of my actual clowns. But their symptoms look similar to this clown, but with the addition of tattered fins and cloudy eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRon February 27, 2011 Share February 27, 2011 Wow... wish I had something constructive to contribute. Good luck, I hope everyone pulls through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite February 28, 2011 Share February 28, 2011 That's not amyloodinium for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 February 28, 2011 Author Share February 28, 2011 Brook then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 February 28, 2011 Author Share February 28, 2011 Look at Brook on this site: http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html They definitely look like both pics and also have that white/faded face like the Powder Blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE February 28, 2011 Share February 28, 2011 I think brook would make the most sense, and that doesn't look like velvet, a lot more like brook. I don't know about the cloudy eyes though. Where did you get these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 February 28, 2011 Author Share February 28, 2011 I think brook would make the most sense, and that doesn't look like velvet, a lot more like brook. I don't know about the cloudy eyes though. Where did you get these? They are from Karen Brittian in Hawaii, so captive bred, full barred, etc.. Not sure what's going on, but it sucks! Luckily, if its brook no other specimens in the system should get it, as it is only through physical contact transfer. Still alive and still treating, hoping for the best. Fingers crossed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der ABT February 28, 2011 Share February 28, 2011 ah man sorry to hear about this, give sean a call (i know he already posted but call the shop and force him to look haha)and have him look at the book, he is really good at ID'ing, suggesting and sometimes even supplying the meds/cure......i saw him make a fish in a wheel chair jump up and all he had to do was touch its head.. but he has helped me with a few ID's and treatments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 February 28, 2011 Author Share February 28, 2011 Again, I think this is Brook for sure now, maybe with a bacterial infection as well. My treatmeant is as follows: Been in Hypo in QT for the past 6 days 1.0010 Every other day i have been doing a Formalin Bath for 60min Saturday I added Cupramine at 0.5ppm to QT (which now, would have no effect on Brook) Saturday I added Marcyn-Oxy to QT (to fight off any other infections) I think i am going to start to do a Formalin bath every day now, as they seem to handle it no problem and look a little better (swimming, not on surface gasping for air) after each bath. -Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinap March 1, 2011 Share March 1, 2011 You need to rinse the fish in hypo water before adding them to the tank with copper. Copper and formalin do not mix well. Are you sure your formalin is fresh? I am yet to see a clown that takes formalin baths so easy...How much are you dosing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 March 1, 2011 Author Share March 1, 2011 You need to rinse the fish in hypo water before adding them to the tank with copper. Copper and formalin do not mix well. Are you sure your formalin is fresh? I am yet to see a clown that takes formalin baths so easy...How much are you dosing? That is exactly what i am doing. The formalin is fresh, no percipitate, plus i let it airate for at least 2hrs bebfore treating, to "burn off" the toxins. Update status, the Latz are looking much better now!! They are swimming around, breathing somewhat normal now, and no more cloudy eyes, and better looking skin!!! Something is starting to work! But it's not over yet. -Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinap March 1, 2011 Share March 1, 2011 Great news! For future reference of anybody who's interested: formalin evaporates when you aerate for 2 hours, hence the dosage becomes lower than needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 March 1, 2011 Author Share March 1, 2011 Great news! For future reference of anybody who's interested: formalin evaporates when you aerate for 2 hours, hence the dosage becomes lower than needed. I read several places that airrating for that amount of time was a requirement to ensure that if the Formalin percipitated out, it would burn off the toxic "methanol" or whatever the toxic form produced is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinap March 1, 2011 Share March 1, 2011 (edited) You need exact concentration (as prescribed in Noga's book, for example, 0.47 to 0.95 ml/g) for the treatment to be successful. No aeration prior to bathing the fish is required. It is required during the bath, however. Your clowns are CB, their immune system is strong, so lower dosage worked in this case. Edited March 1, 2011 by marinap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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